Erythrina variegata/ Varigated Coral Tree

[bubba]

Saw another but this is bigger:

I bet it is more than 40 ft. tall. A closer look:

[Gonzer]

Are you planning on moving/

[epicure3]

That's a beautiful tree. I have never seen one grown in So. Calif. I don't see why you couldn't, however.

[palmislandRandy]

That's by far the largest one I've seen. I didn't think they got that massive.

Randy

[fastfeat]

This species doesn't tolerate Mediterranean climates. If you want to try, be my guest, but don't get your hopes up. The good thing is that so many more species can be grown successfully in CA than FL these days.

[humgarden]

Don't ever remember seeing E. variegata anywhere in Oranga Co.. Don't recall ever seeing it in the Huntington or L.A. county Arb.. Sure did see a lot of 40' Kafferboom all over out there.

Hope Bubba doesn't mind me digressing a bit, but I'm trying to spot gall wasp damage on that baby, don't get over to Florida , so don't know if the damage is as rampant as it is in Hawaii. It just may be possible this specimen or specimens had imidacloprid injected into the trunks.

Can't really see a lot of borer or roller damage on this one. I really would like to look at big, old, mature Erythrinas in south Florida to see if maturity itself offers some resistance to stem borer. I have no doubt that all erythrinas in south florida suffer borer dammage, but in my experience, my older erythrinas don't suffer as much as the younger ones. I wish I could find out if trunk injection of imidacloprid had any effect on borer (terastia meticulosalis).

Of course , all of this is nonsensical to people out in California. They can stand in under their 40 foot Caffras and 65 foot Falcatas and say "What gall wasp?/what borers?" .

[mnorell]

Erythrina variegata was planted in just about every botanical garden in Southern California in the 20th century, and none remain as far as I know. There was a pathetic, puny "E. variegata v. orientalis" on Subtropical Hill at the Huntington in the '80s that suffered horribly and I think finally carked it. Same for E. poeppigiana I believe, they used to have one of those that would die back badly every winter and I have been unable to locate it in recent years. There was, however, an E. sandwicensis in the Hawai'ian collection at UCLA Matthias Botanical Garden in the '90s that was alive for at least a few years. Not sure if it's still there. I was never able to get the more tropical species to survive when I lived in L.A. E. variegata is like Bauhinia monandra...a no go in a cool-night climate like SoCal, even without frost. Elizabeth McClintock in her Allertonia book on Erythrina, wrote that there was a specimen in MacArthur Park near downtown L.A. I examined that tree years ago and can say it was not that species. It had flowers more like E. humeana, not the E. variegata-style flowers with the wide, heavily reflexed standard petal.

Erythrinas are by and large very adaptable plants, but obviously there are climate advantages for various species. Now that I'm living in southern Mississippi I'm limited to species that will survive underground and bloom on new growth, which eliminates many winter/spring-flowering species. E. herbacea is of course native there, and E. crista-galli does well, though it's a partial or even full dieback in bad years. Same for the hybrid of those two (E. x bidwillii), which performs very well despite its rangy growth habit. My happiest success is E. humeana. Even after our unbelievable sub-freezing winter this last year, mine came roaring back from the subterranean caudex with one nice straight trunk. It's now 10' tall and in full bloom. Frankly I think California landscapers should be planting lots of E. falcata (both red and pink forms) and E. latissima. They are probably my favorite California performers and terribly underutilized.

Edited September 11, 2010 by mnorell

[humgarden]

Erythrinas are by and large very adaptable plants, but obviously there are climate advantages for various species. Now that I'm living in southern Mississippi I'm limited to species that will survive underground and bloom on new growth, which eliminates many winter/spring-flowering species. E. herbacea is of course native there, and E. crista-galli does well, though it's a partial or even full dieback in bad years. Same for the hybrid of those two (E. x bidwillii), which performs very well despite its rangy growth habit. My happiest success is E. humeana. Even after our unbelievable sub-freezing winter this last year, mine came roaring back from the subterranean caudex with one nice straight trunk. It's now 10' tall and in full bloom. Frankly I think California landscapers should be planting lots of E. falcata (both red and pink forms) and E. latissima. They are probably my favorite California performers and terribly underutilized.

Glad to hear about your success with E.humeana. Yep, caudexes and lignotubers - If your in 9a it's a thing of beauty. I tried humeana here south of Houston 4 years ago.Five vigorous 1 gal.,early spring planted,lots of water and growth. Only one came back after an average winter, the one I planted in the neighbors yard. She disregarded it of course,and 2 years later it was gone.Nurseryman I got them from said they were seed grown from Yucca-Do (Hempstead location) and "they had great big bushes of it growing out in a field". That's more like Z8a there.I saw beautiful shots on the web of E. humeana in Frisco. Was sure wanting them to make it here.Borers jumped 'em of course. I remember only 2 out of five were green and vigorous at summer end, the other three were not happy. Too much water? Soil pH (around 7)? Not enough like Capetown? Dunno.

I really wanted to get E. corraloides going here .Read it does well in Northeast Mex.(I'm thinking OK,it's no stranger to hot/humid). Ordered one gallon bare root from that big mail order outfit in Florida that has the Russian pages. Great plant,very vigorous,early spring start again. Barely came back after average winter -thanks to caudex of course, may have eventually made it -but I was not around to water and care for it. Didn't make a showing after second winter.

E. falcata is from Brazil, I think. Wonder if anyone in Florida has ever tried it there. What a migratory bird magnet that must be.

[Gonzer]

Mnorell and Humgarden, thanks for that information. Well researched.

[fastfeat]

E. falcata is from Brazil, I think. Wonder if anyone in Florida has ever tried it there. What a migratory bird magnet that must be.

E. falcata is Brazilian and would probably grow in SoFla, but with its relatively thin stems, I'd suspect it to be a bullseye for tip borers. There are (were?) some excellent large street trees in downtown LA, not far from Phillipe's and City Hall-- 40-50' single-trunked trees in tree wells.

Also, two very nice street trees of E. latissima are at 424 N. Bundy Dr in West LA, north of Sunset

(see Google maps street view-- not sure how to link to the specific page.)

Seed is fairly plentiful, but don't bother with cuttings; this species just won't root, perhaps due to the corky bark. (I've tried all sorts of methods, including removal of the corkiness and various NAA and IBA treatments, but never had one root. Seeds sprout easily (hot water treatment). Even though they're City trees, I suggest being nice to the homeowner (assuming it's still the same older lady who has done much to protect these specimens over the years.)

Edited September 11, 2010 by fastfeat

[epicure3]

This species doesn't tolerate Mediterranean climates. If you want to try, be my guest, but don't get your hopes up. The good thing is that so many more species can be grown successfully in CA than FL these days.

Well, that's disappointing.

Do you think that Leon would have one?

[fastfeat]

This species doesn't tolerate Mediterranean climates. If you want to try, be my guest, but don't get your hopes up. The good thing is that so many more species can be grown successfully in CA than FL these days.

Well, that's disappointing.

Do you think that Leon would have one?

Len--

He might, but I think he's probably given up on this one, given his years of experience.

[fastfeat]

Pics of the two E. latissima on N. Bundy:

[humgarden]

There are (were?) some excellent large street trees in downtown LA, not far from Phillipe's and City Hall-- 40-50' single-trunked trees in tree wells.

Also, two very nice street trees of E. latissima are at 424 N. Bundy Dr in West LA, north of Sunset

I hope to look those up next time.

I saw some big,old falcatas on Griffith Park drive just north of Los Feliz -over on the south bound side there. Now I could be wrong,because I'm not that familiar with the area. That street is esplanaded there and winds on for some ways,and out in the wide esplanaded area are several species of Erythrina that I could not make - no surprise since I'm not that good at them. Those falcatas had masses of blooms very high above the canopy of surrounding trees. Seems it was around March? Wish I had taken photos. There was an old planting of 8-10 foot bushy erythrinas with the small pencil eraser size seeds. There were what may have been old coralloides. I got seed of them all, but I spent mucho time looking for just one -just one darn seed, from those fantastic falcatas ,so far above me . Just wanted to plant that seed some day in a savage land far,far away.

That one by the gift shop at L.A. arb , at least the way I remember it, is quite tall.

[fastfeat]

There are (were?) some excellent large street trees in downtown LA, not far from Phillipe's and City Hall-- 40-50' single-trunked trees in tree wells.

Also, two very nice street trees of E. latissima are at 424 N. Bundy Dr in West LA, north of Sunset

I hope to look those up next time.

I saw some big,old falcatas on Griffith Park drive just north of Los Feliz -over on the south bound side there. Now I could be wrong,because I'm not that familiar with the area. That street is esplanaded there and winds on for some ways,and out in the wide esplanaded area are several species of Erythrina that I could not make - no surprise since I'm not that good at them. Those falcatas had masses of blooms very high above the canopy of surrounding trees. Seems it was around March? Wish I had taken photos. There was an old planting of 8-10 foot bushy erythrinas with the small pencil eraser size seeds. There were what may have been old coralloides. I got seed of them all, but I spent mucho time looking for just one -just one darn seed, from those fantastic falcatas ,so far above me . Just wanted to plant that seed some day in a savage land far,far away.

That one by the gift shop at L.A. arb , at least the way I remember it, is quite tall.

E. falcata is fairly easy from rather large cuttings (though not as easy as E. caffra, E. lysistemon, E. coralloides, etc). I had one in my backyard in Bellflower that I grew from a cutting from a tree at the Hotel del Coronado. The tree is/was at 8835 Dunbar St. It was growing/being neglected the last time I was by there about six months ago. The current owners may be able to be plied with a couple of six-packs for a couple of cuttings??

Seed seems to be infrequently produced in CA. A group of trees at Alice Keck Park in Santa Barbara were seedless, despite masses of flowers.

[epicure3]

This species doesn't tolerate Mediterranean climates. If you want to try, be my guest, but don't get your hopes up. The good thing is that so many more species can be grown successfully in CA than FL these days.

Well, that's disappointing.

Do you think that Leon would have one?

Len--

He might, but I think he's probably given up on this one, given his years of experience.

Is there any chance that this could be maintained as a shrub? If so, it would be still be pretty impressive given the beauty of the leaves.

[fastfeat]

This species doesn't tolerate Mediterranean climates. If you want to try, be my guest, but don't get your hopes up. The good thing is that so many more species can be grown successfully in CA than FL these days.

Well, that's disappointing.

Do you think that Leon would have one?

Len--

He might, but I think he's probably given up on this one, given his years of experience.

Is there any chance that this could be maintained as a shrub? If so, it would be still be pretty impressive given the beauty of the leaves.

In FL, I have seen them as a rough hedge/screen. Best bet in CA would probably be to container grow and overwinter in the garage or house so it doesn't rot out in winter rains.

[epicure3]

[bubba]

Great commentary from some obvious professionals of high order!

Humgarden,I am certain that the Coral trees grown in South Florida all experience major borer issues.I happened on this specimen but it looked well cared for.I know of a Champion Coral locally of another variety that has been extremely expensive to maintain to keep borers at bay. I will attempt to get some specific information for you on details regarding it's care.It is great to "scare up" additional pro talent with a topic.

Fastfeat, Your "professional"commentary is always appreciated. I expect next time to hear you reporting from Australia, New Zealand or the South of Spain.

Epic, Prove them wrong!

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

The Florida State Champion Erythrina variegata was in Deerfield Beach, 3 blocks from the ocean. There were two of them but they were damaged so severely in the 2004/2005 hurricanes that they were removed. I never noticed any leaf roller or tip borer damage until after those storms and now, a once reliable bloomer has been rendered less than attractive. The variegated Coral Tree does not bloom nearly as much as the green one but its display of attractive leaves is greatly reduced also by the borers and rollers. Bubba, looking closer at your pics I see what appears to be a little borer damage. Ficus trees are routinely treated for white fly by an imidacloprid root drench. It is not cheap for a large tree. I was quoted between $300 and $400 per tree. You could cut that way back by doing it yourself. You also have to apply it in a timely fashion, drenching well before the tree starts to push new buds. Because of the vagaries of weather you never know when that will be. It could start budding in mid January to mid April depending on how cold the winter. Probably best to apply the drench in mid December.

[JasonD]

Erythrina variegata was planted in just about every botanical garden in Southern California in the 20th century, and none remain as far as I know. There was a pathetic, puny "E. variegata v. orientalis" on Subtropical Hill at the Huntington in the '80s that suffered horribly and I think finally carked it. Same for E. poeppigiana I believe, they used to have one of those that would die back badly every winter and I have been unable to locate it in recent years. There was, however, an E. sandwicensis in the Hawai'ian collection at UCLA Matthias Botanical Garden in the '90s that was alive for at least a few years. Not sure if it's still there. I was never able to get the more tropical species to survive when I lived in L.A. E. variegata is like Bauhinia monandra...a no go in a cool-night climate like SoCal, even without frost. Elizabeth McClintock in her Allertonia book on Erythrina, wrote that there was a specimen in MacArthur Park near downtown L.A. I examined that tree years ago and can say it was not that species. It had flowers more like E. humeana, not the E. variegata-style flowers with the wide, heavily reflexed standard petal.

Erythrinas are by and large very adaptable plants, but obviously there are climate advantages for various species. Now that I'm living in southern Mississippi I'm limited to species that will survive underground and bloom on new growth, which eliminates many winter/spring-flowering species. E. herbacea is of course native there, and E. crista-galli does well, though it's a partial or even full dieback in bad years. Same for the hybrid of those two (E. x bidwillii), which performs very well despite its rangy growth habit. My happiest success is E. humeana. Even after our unbelievable sub-freezing winter this last year, mine came roaring back from the subterranean caudex with one nice straight trunk. It's now 10' tall and in full bloom. Frankly I think California landscapers should be planting lots of E. falcata (both red and pink forms) and E. latissima. They are probably my favorite California performers and terribly underutilized.

I would think Erythrina sandwicensis would be a decent gamble for drier coastal Southern California, considering its summer-dry / winter-wet pattern in Hawai'i and the relatively cool tropical climate there. I've even seen a plant growing at ~2500'-3000' in Kohala, Big Island. What a beautiful tree it is. Has anyone seen it beyond UCLA in California?

[fastfeat]

Erythrina variegata was planted in just about every botanical garden in Southern California in the 20th century, and none remain as far as I know. There was a pathetic, puny "E. variegata v. orientalis" on Subtropical Hill at the Huntington in the '80s that suffered horribly and I think finally carked it. Same for E. poeppigiana I believe, they used to have one of those that would die back badly every winter and I have been unable to locate it in recent years. There was, however, an E. sandwicensis in the Hawai'ian collection at UCLA Matthias Botanical Garden in the '90s that was alive for at least a few years. Not sure if it's still there. I was never able to get the more tropical species to survive when I lived in L.A. E. variegata is like Bauhinia monandra...a no go in a cool-night climate like SoCal, even without frost. Elizabeth McClintock in her Allertonia book on Erythrina, wrote that there was a specimen in MacArthur Park near downtown L.A. I examined that tree years ago and can say it was not that species. It had flowers more like E. humeana, not the E. variegata-style flowers with the wide, heavily reflexed standard petal.

Erythrinas are by and large very adaptable plants, but obviously there are climate advantages for various species. Now that I'm living in southern Mississippi I'm limited to species that will survive underground and bloom on new growth, which eliminates many winter/spring-flowering species. E. herbacea is of course native there, and E. crista-galli does well, though it's a partial or even full dieback in bad years. Same for the hybrid of those two (E. x bidwillii), which performs very well despite its rangy growth habit. My happiest success is E. humeana. Even after our unbelievable sub-freezing winter this last year, mine came roaring back from the subterranean caudex with one nice straight trunk. It's now 10' tall and in full bloom. Frankly I think California landscapers should be planting lots of E. falcata (both red and pink forms) and E. latissima. They are probably my favorite California performers and terribly underutilized.

I would think Erythrina sandwicensis would be a decent gamble for drier coastal Southern California, considering its summer-dry / winter-wet pattern in Hawai'i and the relatively cool tropical climate there. I've even seen a plant growing at ~2500'-3000' in Kohala, Big Island. What a beautiful tree it is. Has anyone seen it beyond UCLA in California?

Jason--

I tried this species from seed many years ago in Orange Co. I got a couple to grow for a couple of years, but they slowly declined. They didn't seem to like the Mediterranean climate. I didn't try really hard to baby them though; perhaps they could make it if they gained some size first? I'd probably try again if I were set up to propagate stuff and had a seed source.

[Hillizard]

The only way I can grow E. variegata is in a pot that I bring indoors late in the fall. Below is the plant mid-summer and today, going into dormancy in my garage. While this variety grows vigorously during summer in the heat/sun of interior NorCal, it seems to be a shy bloomer under my local conditions. Also pictured below is my E. humeana as of today. It's been very slow to develop blooming spikes this year. If we get a hard frost in the next few weeks I doubt if they'll survive. 

[gerard]

Not too wet,little dry and next year it will bloom

[CLINODAVE]

E. variegata same as orientalis?  Used to be such a gorgeous symbol of winter in HI.  Then came the gall wasp.  Dunno how effective the predator is on the gall wasp.  Maybe people just don't even consider planting it anymore given how fast they all died when the wasp arrived.  Native Erythrina sandwicensis seems to tolerate the wasp better, but it has not done well for me in wet East HI.

 

[Silas_Sancona]

On 12/20/2017, 6:06:14, gerard said:

Not too wet,little dry and next year it will bloom

Agree, killd my E. humeana v. raja with just a bit too much H20. By Nor. Cal. standards, that variegata looks good. 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, CLINODAVE said:

E. variegata same as orientalis?  Used to be such a gorgeous symbol of winter in HI.  Then came the gall wasp.  Dunno how effective the predator is on the gall wasp.  Maybe people just don't even consider planting it anymore given how fast they all died when the wasp arrived.  Native Erythrina sandwicensis seems to tolerate the wasp better, but it has not done well for me in wet East HI.

 

  Guessing orientalis is an older name.

Remember reading about how quickly the wasp, which nearly exterminated E. sandwicensis, took out alot of the variegata planted there also. Thinking now that the predatory bug that seems to be controlling the wasp (..and allowing Williwilli trees rebound)  you might start seeing more variegata again. I'd think so anyway.. 

  As far as E. sandwicensis, pretty sure it grows natively in drier parts of the island, and likes to stay on the dry side, compared to other Erythrina which might tolerate more moisture. Have acouple year old seedlings I treat alot like Adeniums. There is also a decent  WilliWilli specimen in Balboa Park ( San Diego) One of our forum members here did a nice thread about it while back.

[Hillizard]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree, killd my E. humeana v. raja with just a bit too much H20. By Nor. Cal. standards, that variegata looks good. 

Silas_Sancona: The E. humeana v. raja I tried to grow remained weak and prone to huge infestations of scale. It eventually died.

My challenge with E. variegata (I've lost more than one) has always been overwintering them. When dormant in my location they seem to do best in a cool, dry place with some sunlight. I'm hoping that placing this one next to the insulated glass doors of my west-facing garage will do the trick this winter. I plan on keeping it seriously under-potted, so the soil dries out regularly next year during the summer, as Gerard suggested. 

[Hillizard]

Almost lost my Erythrina indica picta (E. variegata) this past winter in my garage where I store it with my dormant Plumeria. It managed to send up some shoots from its base this summer. At this point, I'm just relieved it's still alive, even if it probably will never bloom for me.  At least my in-ground E. humeana flowers reliably each fall. Still waiting to see if I can coax flowers from my potted, extremely prickly E. acanthocarpa one of these years!

[Silas_Sancona]

4 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Almost lost my Erythrina indica picta (E. variegata) this past winter in my garage where I store it with my dormant Plumeria. It managed to send up some shoots from its base this summer. At this point, I'm just relieved it's still alive, even if it probably will never bloom for me.  At least my in-ground E. humeana flowers reliably each fall. Still waiting to see if I can coax flowers from my potted, extremely prickly E. acanthocarpa one of these years!

 

At least its alive.. and looks good, imo.  Thanks to our summer nuke fests, of all things,  i'm now down to two and 1/2 ( cutting i took off my E. velutina some time ago counts as the 1/2, lol) Erythrina sp, out of 10 when i moved here, inc. both E. acanthocarpa specimens.. Interesting to see see if i'll be able to find replacements later. 

[Hillizard]

4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

At least its alive.. and looks good, imo.  Thanks to our summer nuke fests, of all things,  i'm now down to two and 1/2 ( cutting i took off my E. velutina some time ago counts as the 1/2, lol) Erythrina sp, out of 10 when i moved here, inc. both E. acanthocarpa specimens.. Interesting to see see if i'll be able to find replacements later. 

I think you'll find both seeds and seedlings of many Erythrina species available in SoCal at nurseries and plant societies.  They do so well in that part of the state. I've seen E. acanthocarpa offered as both seeds and seedlings online domestically. Nice images here: https://www.agaveville.org/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=5798

My personal Erythrina quest is to someday locate seeds of this one: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Erythrina-dominguezii-in-Ledesma-Jujuy-Argentina-a-Individual-tree-b-Inorescence_fig1_236309035

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

I think you'll find both seeds and seedlings of many Erythrina species available in SoCal at nurseries and plant societies.  They do so well in that part of the state. I've seen E. acanthocarpa offered as both seeds and seedlings online domestically. Nice images here: https://www.agaveville.org/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=5798

For sure, no worries finding the "common suspects"  down there, and still have seed of some of the others.. its acanthocarpa thats gonna be a little more challenging.  That said, among the harder to find sp.,  the white whale on my Erythrina list is E. leptorhiza from the mountains of Mexico.. rare and exhibits a similar growth pattern as E. zeyheri from S. Africa.. That sp. is also on the list ofcourse, lol. 

[Hillizard]

10 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

For sure, no worries finding the "common suspects"  down there, and still have seed of some of the others.. its acanthocarpa thats gonna be a little more challenging.  That said, among the harder to find sp.,  the white whale on my Erythrina list is E. leptorhiza from the mountains of Mexico.. rare and exhibits a similar growth pattern as E. zeyheri from S. Africa.. That sp. is also on the list ofcourse, lol. 

Before you depart your current state, you may want to stock up on species at https://aridlandswholesale.com/  I got a seedling E. acanthocarpa from them in the past, although the one I have now I grew from a South African seed supplier.  I'll keep an eye out for E. leptorhiza.  I wouldn't mind growing that one myself!

 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

Before you depart your current state, you may want to stock up on species at https://aridlandswholesale.com/  I got a seedling E. acanthocarpa from them in the past, although the one I have now I grew from a South African seed supplier.  I'll keep an eye out for E. leptorhiza.  I wouldn't mind growing that one myself!

 

They had it in their inventory for some time but sold out.. right after i lost the small one i'd picked up from them back in 2016.  No worries.. i'm sure i'll come across seedlings again once in SoCal. Theres at least one or two well known places with flowering / seeding specimens around.  Looking forward to seeing how one i'd photographed  5 or 6 years ago has grown.  Came across the other sp. by accident while researching some other stuff that grows in the same general part of Mexico. Agree, would be a very interesting sp. to grow / study.  

Regardless, hoping to make a trip down to Aridlands sometime before the holidays.. been awhile and want to see how Toni and Bob are doing, ..and see their two German Shepards of course.