Carota monostachya

[palmtreesforpleasure]

here are some pictures of Caryota monostachya at home, This a great palm, does not get to tall nor to wide. good for temperate climates to tropical.

More pictures from others would be good to see

regards

Colin

[gyuseppe]

I want to try this species,and I'm waiting to come out for sale the seeds from rarepalmseeds

[peachy]

They thrive in pots here, but the minute I plant them, they just dont adjust to my soil, no matter how much I have amended it.

[Jeff Searle]

Colin,

    It is one of the smaller species of the genus. I have had them actually flower in the pot and set 3-4 seeds. I just collected two about a month ago.

[Josh-O]

4 hours ago, Jeff Searle said:

Colin,

    It is one of the smaller species of the genus. I have had them actually flower in the pot and set 3-4 seeds. I just collected two about a month ago.

Is this more of a dwarf type a fishtai?

let me know if you ever get any extra seed I'd be interested in some

[Cindy Adair]

Sounds like another good one for me to try. Caryotas seem carefree here with all I have planted doing well. Thanks for the photos Colin!

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hi Cindy

It is a good looking palm, it grows well here in a warm temperate climate, it appears to be very cool hardy as well. Hopefully some others are growing it it and will put some pictures up.

regards

Colin

[T Durden 9b]

I hope no one minds me reviving this old post.

For anyone successfully growing Caryota monostachya, what kind of light (sun) and watering are you giving it? What kind of soil?

Any info I'm finding online is either conflicting or incomplete. I have one that's teetering (browning leaves) and I want to ensure I don't lead it the wrong way!

Thanks in advance --
Matt
 

[Darold Petty]

Matt, Welcome to Palmtalk !   Invite yourself to visit me sometime,   

[Merlyn]

22 minutes ago, T Durden 9b said:

I hope no one minds me reviving this old post.

For anyone successfully growing Caryota monostachya, what kind of light (sun) and watering are you giving it? What kind of soil?  Any info I'm finding online is either conflicting or incomplete. I have one that's teetering (browning leaves) and I want to ensure I don't lead it the wrong way!

I prefer reviving old posts, often there's years of extra info in threads that would otherwise be buried and never seen again.  Some forums frown on "necro-dredging" up old stuff, but not here!

Regarding your question, I planted a pot here in the Orlando area back in late 2020.  It had been grown in a 15g pot by forum member ChuckG, and was in a mostly shaded spot at his place.  I put it in a spot in the backyard that was initially shaded by a couple of 80' tall water oaks and pines, and it grew just fine there.  In January 2021 I cut down the tall shade, and a Bambusa Maligensis (Seabreeze) took over shading duty for the Monostachya.  A month ago I cut down and removed the bamboo, so now it is mostly in the sun.  Here's a photo today for reference.  It is definitely gone pale green since going into full sun, and probably would be happier if I gave it some more shade.  That might not be too bad in a normal summer, because by the end of May we usually get afternoon thunderstorms that provide some cloud cover and rain almost every day.  But that hasn't been the case this year, with only 3 inches of rain in the last 30 days.

As far as water, it is in sandy slightly acidic soil that is really well draining and I have a pair of 1gph drippers running 45 minutes per day.  So it gets about 1.5 gallons per day supplemental water.  In my yard this is only to prevent things from drying out during droughts, since we get 40-60 inches of rain per year in the summer.  It took zero damage with about 4 hours of 24-26F in January, but did have frost protection from the bamboo at the time.

[T Durden 9b]

Darold & Merlyn,

Thank you for the warm welcome and good to know about using old posts (I too hate to see valuable old info get buried!). Merlyn, looks like you have a beautiful specimen there!

As embarrassing as this is to share, here's there poor thing that I'm working with (below).

My first instinct says "rot," but I know the Caryotas can show a similar browning when they receive too _little_ water. I have this in my usual high draining soil mix (that I use successfully with most of the palms & tropicals), and it's currently under a windmill (Trachycarpus fortunei) where it receives 2-3 hours of early morning sun with open shade the rest of the day. I'm considering moving it to my dappled shade corner (under a Ligustrum tree) where I have a Dypsis baronii, Chamaedorea benziei, C. radicalis, Syagrus weddelliana and Ceryxylon quindiuense all happily thriving. I figured the morning sun in its current location would hopefully jump start it a bit, but it doesn't seem to be helping. The growth is more or less stalled out, but the browning has remained at this stage for the past few weeks. I've been letting the soil more or less dry out a bit between waterings (in case this is indeed some form of rot), watering it every 3-4 days. As reference: for most of my palms & other plants, saturating them every 2-3 days around this time of year seems to be the sweet spot in this microclimate. Everything in my garden is (painstakingly) hand watered.

Again, any guidance is appreciated! One more question, Merlyn: does yours sit slightly above the soil with the roots? (as is the case with my happy/healthy C. maxima "Himalayan")?

Thanks again!
Matt

[Merlyn]

22 hours ago, T Durden 9b said:

As embarrassing as this is to share, here's there poor thing that I'm working with (below).

My first instinct says "rot," but I know the Caryotas can show a similar browning when they receive too _little_ water. I have this in my usual high draining soil mix (that I use successfully with most of the palms & tropicals), and it's currently under a windmill (Trachycarpus fortunei) where it receives 2-3 hours of early morning sun with open shade the rest of the day. I'm considering moving it to my dappled shade corner (under a Ligustrum tree) where I have a Dypsis baronii, Chamaedorea benziei, C. radicalis, Syagrus weddelliana and Ceryxylon quindiuense all happily thriving. I figured the morning sun in its current location would hopefully jump start it a bit, but it doesn't seem to be helping. The growth is more or less stalled out, but the browning has remained at this stage for the past few weeks. I've been letting the soil more or less dry out a bit between waterings (in case this is indeed some form of rot), watering it every 3-4 days. As reference: for most of my palms & other plants, saturating them every 2-3 days around this time of year seems to be the sweet spot in this microclimate. Everything in my garden is (painstakingly) hand watered.

Again, any guidance is appreciated! One more question, Merlyn: does yours sit slightly above the soil with the roots? (as is the case with my happy/healthy C. maxima "Himalayan")?

I'm definitely not an expert on growing seedlings, so my comments are of limited use.  My nursery area is all under relatively tall Queen palm canopy, and I put my sun-loving seedlings out to the East side so they get full sun until around noonish.  The nursery area faces South, so in the winter they get a lot more direct sun and aren't shaded by the Queens.  The shade-loving seedlings are underneath a couple of Hyophorbes and C. Macrocarpa in the middle, so they get double shade and rarely directly see the sun.  That's mostly for stuff that really likes it shady, like some Licuala, Rhapis, and Chamaedorea.  I use dripline fan-sprayers-on-a-stick to cover the nursery area, but I'm on well water so I don't have to worry about chloramines and other tap water issues.

For your specific plant, it's hard to say.  Initially I'd think underwatering, because the leaves are held at a normal angle (not droopy) and they are browned at the edges.  That could be due to root rot, if it is staying too wet too long.  But I don't really know how to diagnose seedlings.

My palm was grown in a 15g pot in originally deep shade.  It had almost no dirt left in the actual pot, and had rooted through the pot into the soil at his place.  It was really tough to yank it out of the ground, we had to cut off a bunch of roots around the bottom.  The clustering part was mostly bare of dirt with the upper roots exposed.  I planted it at roughly the "normal" depth for most palms, with the root initiation zone right about ground level.  I then washed native sandy soil in from the top, just to fill up any air pockets.  I don't know if this is "ideal" for Monostachya, but it seemed happy enough before I removed too much shade... 

[daxin]

On 6/9/2022 at 1:22 PM, T Durden 9b said:

Darold & Merlyn,

Thank you for the warm welcome and good to know about using old posts (I too hate to see valuable old info get buried!). Merlyn, looks like you have a beautiful specimen there!

As embarrassing as this is to share, here's there poor thing that I'm working with (below).

My first instinct says "rot," but I know the Caryotas can show a similar browning when they receive too _little_ water. I have this in my usual high draining soil mix (that I use successfully with most of the palms & tropicals), and it's currently under a windmill (Trachycarpus fortunei) where it receives 2-3 hours of early morning sun with open shade the rest of the day. I'm considering moving it to my dappled shade corner (under a Ligustrum tree) where I have a Dypsis baronii, Chamaedorea benziei, C. radicalis, Syagrus weddelliana and Ceryxylon quindiuense all happily thriving. I figured the morning sun in its current location would hopefully jump start it a bit, but it doesn't seem to be helping. The growth is more or less stalled out, but the browning has remained at this stage for the past few weeks. I've been letting the soil more or less dry out a bit between waterings (in case this is indeed some form of rot), watering it every 3-4 days. As reference: for most of my palms & other plants, saturating them every 2-3 days around this time of year seems to be the sweet spot in this microclimate. Everything in my garden is (painstakingly) hand watered.

Again, any guidance is appreciated! One more question, Merlyn: does yours sit slightly above the soil with the roots? (as is the case with my happy/healthy C. maxima "Himalayan")?

Thanks again!
Matt

Another possible cause is Calcium deficiency in fast draining soil irrigated with very pure water such as snow melt from the Hetch Hetchy reservoir. Orchid growers in the SF Bay Area have seen similar leaf necrosis and they recommend low P high K fertilizers with extra Calcium and Magnesium. Dolomite lime and Azomite are good slow release Ca/Mg soil additives. It is probably also helpful to make the irrigation water and/or the soil slightly acidic to improve Calcium ion availability 

[Merlyn]

7 minutes ago, daxin said:

Another possible cause is Calcium deficiency in fast draining soil irrigated with very pure water such as snow melt from the Hetch Hetchy reservoir. Orchid growers in the SF Bay Area have seen similar leaf necrosis and they recommend low P high K fertilizers with extra Calcium and Magnesium. Dolomite lime and Azomite are good slow release Ca/Mg soil additives. It is probably also helpful to make the irrigation water and/or the soil slightly acidic to improve Calcium ion availability 

I haven't really paid attention to calcium deficiency in palms, is leaf tip necrosis a common symptom?  I have my "cheat sheet" of common symptoms, but it's kind of incomplete except for some notes on issues with Cuban Copernicias.  But as you can see below I'd attributed the lime additions as helping to avoid Potassium deficiencies.  I think this came from sonoranfans' comments regarding KO in acidic soils.  Are there any specific symptoms of calcium deficiencies that I could add to my list?

• Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
• Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
• Magnesium - Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
• Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
• Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
• Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
• Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
• Dolomitic Lime - Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
• Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

[Merlyn]

@daxin I just had a random thought.  I started adding about 10% of Sakrete Paver Base to my seedling pots a while back.  This is made up of crushed limestone, at least around the Orlando area.  Maybe this addition of limestone is one of the reasons why my seedlings have been growing better over the last year?  It sure would make a lot of sense if the apparent Potassium deficiency was actually caused by a lack of potassium bioavailability instead of just a lack of potassium.

[sgvcns]

I have collected seeds of this palm in habitat. It grows on limestone hills in Cuc phuong NP in Vietnam. About 500 - 800m and seasonally wet. Grows with Lan calciphilla and P baviensis most notably(for me)

[Merlyn]

@T Durden 9b I moved my Caryota Monostachya on Sunday, it was just getting blasted by the sun.  I considered planting something to the West of it, but I didn't have anything tall enough to provide instant canopy.  So I moved my stash of nursery pots from between the two Dendrocalamus Latiflorus and Maroochy.  This left a nice 10' open spot for the Monostachya.  Any leaves directly exposed to the sun had turned very pale green.  Initially I was thinking that it was a nutrient deficiency, but the lower fronds that were shaded are still a nice medium green.  And even the leaves at the end of one frond turned back to green because the last foot of frond was shaded by a nearby huge Encephalartos Hildebrandtii.  There are a couple of 6' long spears about ready to open, hopefully they'll wait until it roots back in.

[Merlyn]

12 hours ago, sgvcns said:

I have collected seeds of this palm in habitat. It grows on limestone hills in Cuc phuong NP in Vietnam. About 500 - 800m and seasonally wet. Grows with Lan calciphilla and P baviensis most notably(for me)

That's great info, I had missed that it grew on limestone cliffs and soils.  My soil is a bit acidic so maybe I'll sprinkle some limestone gravel over in that area.

One other useful tidbit, this palm is pretty cold hardy!  It was in the coldest area with an ultimate low of 24.4F and about 4-5 hours at 24-26F.  It took zero cold damage, not even a single burnt leaf tip.  At the time there was a Bambusa Maligensis/Seabreeze hanging over the top, so it had some very good frost protection and also radiational cooling protection.  About 10 feet away was a Caryota Urens 2' tall seedling, and it took only very minor leaf tip burn.

[T Durden 9b]

So many great replies on this! Sorry for disappearing for a few days -- it's been especially busy over here.

I _did_ (after @Merlyn confirming that these things prefer shade) move it to my happy palm corner with speckled sun/shade. I also (on @daxin 's advice) dosed it with a low-P high-K fertilizer (the "special blend" from hidden valley hibiscus) the other day just to see how it reacted. No real changes (or notable growth), although the green in the leaves seems a bit deeper/healthier. The necrosis hasn't spread, which is good. I'm planning to give it another week or so to see how it does, and then I'm considering repotting it (so I can see what the roots look like and also start over with a new soil mix). I feel like my go-to soil (EB Stone Cactus & Succulent, mixed with various degrees of bark, moss, and perlite depending on the plant) can backfire sometimes & end up trapping too much water. Hopefully that isn't the case here...although the soil in the bottom holes does seem to stay pretty wet. I really I hope I'm not rotting this poor thing!

Merlyn, your plant looks beautiful -- and it looks like you've found a great spot for it! Here's hoping I can still save mine! Here's a shot of it in its current home (bottom center-right, wooden planter).

[Darold Petty]

really nice Vireya !  

[T Durden 9b]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

really nice Vireya !  

Thanks, @Darold Petty ! I'm a huge fan of vireyas. I also have 7 (!) inflos of plumeria coming in this summer! That's a new record. What an excellent, rewarding hobby all of this is (well, once I get this Carota monostachya to stop hating me).

[HolyNewBee]

Here are some Caryota monostachya individuals/clusters palnted in Guilin. They're at least twenty years old surrounded by C. maxima & C. obtusa. They love shady place and once establish their roots system they become tolerant of bad drainage even short-term waterlog. If your seedling is weak, it means yours doesn't do well with root growth.

[T Durden 9b]

On 11/20/2022 at 7:04 AM, HolyNewBee said:

Here are some Caryota monostachya individuals/clusters palnted in Guilin. They're at least twenty years old surrounded by C. maxima & C. obtusa. They love shady place and once establish their roots system they become tolerant of bad drainage even short-term waterlog. If your seedling is weak, it means yours doesn't do well with root growth.

What beautiful plants! Thanks for sharing!

And you're right about the roots: I think I over-potted it last spring. I put it into a smaller, especially high draining pot mid-summer and now it has new growth! Here's hoping it gets through winter OK!

[HolyNewBee]

6 hours ago, T Durden 9b said:

What beautiful plants! Thanks for sharing!

And you're right about the roots: I think I over-potted it last spring. I put it into a smaller, especially high draining pot mid-summer and now it has new growth! Here's hoping it gets through winter OK!

These clustering palms native to southwest China, such as Pinanga baviensis, Lanonia dasyantha, Caryota monostachya, are found in understory vegetation of mosoon forest with moist soil, wet air and much lower temperature than typical tropical rain forest, which means only with very few exceptions, each of them is one of the hardiest species in their own genus, especially in gloomy, humid and cold winters or regions.

So don't worry, it definitely can hold on in 9b zone and I'm going to bring some seedling into 9a zone（Changsha, Lower than 24F） in order to test its edge of survival.

[T Durden 9b]

A quick update for anyone who finds or is following this thread: my C. monostachya is growing! Granted, it's about the slowest growing plant I have (this leaf is the same one as my update last November), but it survived a 27° (-2.8°C) hard freeze last winter no problem.

It seems to prefer very early morning sun with dappled shade the rest of the day. It got repeatedly soaked with our heavy rains last winter no problem, and I've been watering every 3rd day or so in this growing season (where it's been growing slow but steady). I'm so happy to see the plant doing well! @HolyNewBee -- I'd be curious to hear how your cold experiments went!

[HolyNewBee]

9 hours ago, T Durden 9b said:

A quick update for anyone who finds or is following this thread: my C. monostachya is growing! Granted, it's about the slowest growing plant I have (this leaf is the same one as my update last November), but it survived a 27° (-2.8°C) hard freeze last winter no problem.

It seems to prefer very early morning sun with dappled shade the rest of the day. It got repeatedly soaked with our heavy rains last winter no problem, and I've been watering every 3rd day or so in this growing season (where it's been growing slow but steady). I'm so happy to see the plant doing well!@HolyNewBee-- I'd be curious to hear how your cold experiments went!

Congratulations to your caryota! I'm still struggling for germination. I got some dozens of seeds, but none of them has germinated yet.😭